Saturday, February 15, 2025

async programming


C# Async Programming - Part 1: Conceptual Background
Summarize
Sider Fusion

The lesson focuses on asynchronous programming in C#, emphasizing its importance for efficient database access and user experience. It contrasts asynchronous programming with parallel programming, explaining that async allows non-blocking operations, enhancing performance, especially in web servers. The session includes theoretical concepts followed by practical coding exercises.

You may be interested in these questions:
Highlights
01:10
Today's lesson focuses on asynchronous programming, which is essential for mastering entity framework and database access. Understanding this concept will enhance your programming skills in C# significantly.
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04:04
Threads can access shared memory within a process, enabling efficient parallel programming. This allows for better resource utilization and faster execution of tasks across multiple CPU cores.
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08:07
Developers today often work with single-core virtual machines, even in powerful cloud environments. This limitation impacts programming approaches, particularly in asynchronous and parallel programming contexts.
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12:10
Asynchronous programming prevents CPU blocking, allowing other tasks to run while waiting for database queries to complete. This enhances user experience by keeping the application responsive during long operations.
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16:11
JavaScript excels in asynchronous programming compared to C#. C# supports both parallel and asynchronous programming, making it versatile for handling multiple tasks efficiently.
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20:13
Efficient web servers should limit the number of threads to optimize performance and resource usage. When too many threads are created, it can lead to CPU overload and inefficiency.
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24:20
Asynchronous programming allows a single thread to handle multiple HTTP requests simultaneously without locking, improving efficiency in web server operations. This method is essential for non-CPU bound tasks like database access.
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28:23
Docker allows for the rapid deployment of lightweight virtual machines called containers, which can effectively manage varying loads on web servers. This facilitates automatic scaling and efficient resource management in cloud computing environments.
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what does blocking the CPU means?
Sider Fusion

Blocking the CPU refers to a situation where a thread or process is unable to continue executing because it is waiting for a resource or an event to happen. This can occur in various scenarios, such as:

  1. Waiting for I/O Operations: When a program tries to read from a disk or wait for network data, it may block the CPU until the operation is complete.

  2. Locks and Synchronization: When multiple threads need to access shared resources, one thread may block the CPU if it tries to access a resource currently held by another thread.

  3. Waiting for User Input: In user interface applications, the main thread may block while waiting for user interaction, which can lead to an unresponsive application.

When the CPU is blocked, it cannot perform any other tasks, which can lead to inefficient use of resources and slow down overall application performance. Non-blocking approaches, such as asynchronous programming, help to mitigate this issue by allowing other operations to proceed while waiting for the blocking operation to complete.

so even though UI thread is different as being showin in the example or is it the same thread?
Sider Fusion

In the context of user interface (UI) applications, the UI thread (sometimes called the main thread) is indeed a specific thread responsible for rendering the UI and handling user interactions. Here's how it works and how it differs or relates to blocking:

  1. UI Thread: The UI thread is dedicated to updating the interface and processing input from the user. It manages events like button clicks, typing in text fields, and drawing graphics. Since it's the only thread that can safely update the UI, blocking this thread will result in a frozen application where the user cannot interact until the blocking operation is complete.

  2. Blocking the UI Thread: If you perform a long-running task—like a network request or a heavy computation—on the UI thread, it blocks any pending UI updates or user interactions. This results in poor user experience, as the application may become unresponsive.

  3. Asynchronous Programming: To prevent blocking the UI thread, you can use asynchronous programming techniques. By offloading long-running tasks to a separate thread (such as using async/await in C#), the UI thread remains free to handle user inputs and update the interface, thus maintaining responsiveness.

In summary, while the UI thread is a specific thread different from others in your application, blocking it would typically mean that the application becomes unresponsive. To avoid this, non-blocking techniques are essential for keeping the UI responsive while performing time-consuming operations.

can you refer to the video again, in the examplke he is talking about at 12:50 is the thread UI thread or some other thread?
Sider Fusion

In the video at around 12:50, the speaker discusses a scenario involving a UI application, which typically runs on the UI thread. This thread is responsible for handling user interactions and updating the user interface. When the application performs a long-running operation, such as a database query, on the UI thread, it blocks that thread, causing the application to become unresponsive.

To maintain responsiveness, it's crucial to offload such operations to a separate thread or use asynchronous programming techniques. This allows the UI thread to remain free for user interactions while the background thread handles the time-consuming tasks. So, in this context, the thread being referred to is indeed the UI thread, and the discussion emphasizes the importance of not blocking it during long operations.

so blocking of UI Thread is same as blocking of CPU?
Sider Fusion

Not exactly. While there is a relationship between blocking the UI thread and blocking the CPU, they are not the same thing. Here’s how they differ:

Blocking the UI Thread

  • Specific to User Interfaces: This refers specifically to the main thread responsible for rendering the user interface and handling user inputs.
  • User Experience Impact: When the UI thread is blocked (for example, by a long-running operation), the application becomes unresponsive to user interactions, leading to a poor user experience (e.g., freezing or lagging).
  • Prevention: To prevent blocking, developers typically move time-consuming tasks off the UI thread using asynchronous programming or run them on a background thread.

Blocking the CPU

  • General Concept: This is a broader term that applies to any situation where a CPU core cannot execute any tasks because a thread is waiting (e.g., for I/O operations, locks, or software interrupts).
  • Resource Utilization: When the CPU is blocked, it cannot perform any computations or process tasks, leading to inefficient use of CPU resources. This can occur in any thread, not just the UI thread.
  • Asynchronous vs. Synchronous: Non-blocking approaches in general, including asynchronous programming, aim to keep the CPU busy by scheduling other tasks while waiting for certain operations to complete.

Summary

In summary, blocking the UI thread is a specific scenario that impacts user experience, while blocking the CPU is a broader concept that can affect any thread's ability to perform work. Both situations can lead to inefficiencies, but the contexts and impacts are different.

just tell me what the person is talking about in 12:50 example, is the thread being blocked UI or the CPU is being blocked when DB call is made?
Sider Fusion

In the example discussed around 12:50 in the video, the speaker is primarily referring to the blocking of the CPU when a database call is made. He explains that if asynchronous programming is not used, the thread will actively wait for the database query to complete, which results in blocking the CPU. This means that while the thread is waiting for the database response, it is not performing any other calculations or tasks, effectively wasting CPU resources.

Additionally, since the UI thread is also a thread, if the same blocking operation occurs on the UI thread, it would lead to the application becoming unresponsive to user interactions. However, the main focus of that part of the discussion is on how the CPU is being blocked due to the synchronous nature of the database call.

wehn you say the word ", effectively wasting CPU resources." what do you mean?
Sider Fusion

When the speaker refers to "effectively wasting CPU resources," he is highlighting the inefficiency that occurs when a thread is blocked while waiting for a long-running operation, such as a database query, to complete. In this context, the CPU is not being utilized effectively because:

  1. Blocking the Thread: If a thread is waiting for a database response (or any I/O operation) synchronously, it cannot perform any other tasks. This means the CPU core assigned to that thread is idle, just waiting for the operation to finish.

  2. Idle CPU: While the thread is blocked, the CPU is not executing any calculations or processing other tasks. This leads to a situation where the CPU is not being used to its full potential, as it could be handling other operations or threads instead.

  3. User Experience Impact: In a UI application, this blocking can lead to the application becoming unresponsive, as the UI thread is also waiting. This results in a poor user experience, as users cannot interact with the application while it is waiting.

In summary, "effectively wasting CPU resources" means that the CPU is not being used efficiently because it is sitting idle while waiting for a blocking operation to complete, rather than performing useful work. This inefficiency can be mitigated through asynchronous programming, which allows the CPU to remain free to handle other tasks while waiting for the I/O operation to finish.

okay so from what I udnertand, even if the OS has given prememptive multitasking to various things, when time comes for this task, CPU still won't be doing anyhting else despite getting the previlige to work?
Sider Fusion

Yes, that's correct! Even with preemptive multitasking, if a thread is blocked while waiting for a long-running operation (like a database call or I/O operation), the CPU will not be able to perform any other tasks related to that blocked thread. Here’s a bit more detail:

  1. Preemptive Multitasking: This is a feature of modern operating systems that allows multiple processes (or threads) to share CPU time. The OS can interrupt a running task to give CPU time to another task, ensuring that all tasks can make progress.

  2. Blocked Threads: However, when a thread is blocked (for example, waiting for a database response), it cannot proceed with its execution. Even though the OS has the ability to switch to another thread or process, the blocked thread is still waiting for a specific resource or event to occur.

  3. CPU Utilization: While the OS can switch to other threads that are ready to run, the blocked thread itself cannot do any useful work until the operation it’s waiting on completes. If the blocked thread is the only one that needs to be executed (or if it is holding resources that other threads need), then the CPU will remain idle for that thread until it becomes unblocked.

  4. Asynchronous Programming: To avoid this inefficiency, asynchronous programming allows a thread to initiate a long-running operation and then continue executing other code without waiting for the operation to complete. This allows the CPU to remain busy and perform other tasks, improving overall resource utilization and application responsiveness.

In summary, while preemptive multitasking allows the OS to manage multiple tasks, if a specific thread is blocked, it won't be able to do anything until it is unblocked, potentially leading to inefficient CPU usage.

But CPU would still be aviuable when it is alloted a differtnt thread for a different task like playhing of music in the background is happening, only in this particular application's which basically a UI applicaiton and making uis eof hte UI THREAD, when cpu get's alloted it, it won't be doing anything
Sider Fusion

Exactly, you've got it! Let's break it down:

  1. Multiple Threads and CPU Availability: In a multitasking operating system, the CPU can switch between different threads and processes. If one thread (like the UI thread) is blocked waiting for a long-running operation (e.g., a database call), the CPU can allocate time to another thread that is ready to run (like a background music player or another application). This means the CPU is still available and can be utilized effectively by other tasks.

  2. UI Applications and the UI Thread: In the context of a UI application, the UI thread is responsible for managing the user interface and responding to user interactions. If this thread gets blocked (e.g., waiting for data), the application will become unresponsive. Users won’t be able to click buttons, see updates, or interact with the UI until that thread is unblocked.

  3. What Happens When the UI Thread is Blocked: While the UI thread is blocked, other threads on the system (such as the music player running on a different thread) can continue to execute because they are not affected by the blocking of the UI thread. However, the UI thread itself is not able to handle any new events or update the interface, which is why the application appears frozen to the user.

Summary

So, to summarize, when the UI thread is blocked, the CPU can still execute other threads that are ready to run. The overall CPU resources of the system can be utilized, but the specific thread that is blocked (the UI thread in this case) won't be making any progress until it gets unblocked, which affects the responsiveness of that particular application. Other threads or processes can still operate normally, which allows for multitasking.

so coming back to 12:50 example, the only reason UI feezes is because it is making use of a UI THREAD AND THEN it was waiting and cpu was blocked. if they had created a new thread, then CPU would be waiting for that thread but UI Thread would still be free, correct?
Sider Fusion

Yes, that's correct! Let's clarify the situation around the example discussed at 12:50 in the video:

  1. Using the UI Thread: When the database call is made on the UI thread, that specific thread becomes blocked while waiting for the database response. Since the UI thread is responsible for managing the user interface, this results in the application freezing or becoming unresponsive to user interactions.

  2. Creating a New Thread: If the application had created a separate thread to handle the database call (instead of using the UI thread), the UI thread would remain free to handle user interactions. In this case:

    • The new background thread can perform the database operation without blocking the UI thread.
    • While the CPU waits for the database operation to complete on the new thread, the UI thread continues to handle user inputs and update the interface.
  3. CPU Behavior: The CPU can still allocate time to both the UI thread and the new background thread. While one thread is blocked (the database operation in the background thread), the UI thread remains responsive, allowing the application to function normally.

Summary

Thus, as you summarized, if a new thread is used for long-running operations (like database calls), the UI thread can remain available for handling user input and UI updates, preventing the application from freezing. This approach enhances user experience and maintains application responsiveness while maximizing CPU utilization.

what does he means when he says "if we use Tasks which are not CPU bound we can do parallel"? at around 15:15
Sider Fusion

When the speaker says, "if we use tasks which are not CPU bound we can do parallel," he is referring to the ability to efficiently manage and execute multiple tasks without overloading the CPU. Here’s a breakdown of what he means:

  1. CPU-Bound vs. I/O-Bound Tasks:

    • CPU-Bound Tasks: These tasks require significant CPU processing power and are limited by the CPU's ability to perform calculations. Examples include complex calculations or data processing.
    • I/O-Bound Tasks: These tasks involve waiting for input/output operations to complete, such as reading from a database, accessing files, or making network requests. They do not require continuous CPU processing and often involve waiting for external resources.
  2. Parallel Programming:

    • In the context of parallel programming, the speaker emphasizes that when tasks are not CPU-bound (i.e., they are I/O-bound), you can utilize asynchronous programming techniques. This allows the application to initiate these tasks and then continue executing other code without waiting for the I/O operations to complete.
    • For example, if a web server receives multiple HTTP requests that involve reading data from a database, it can handle these requests asynchronously. While one request is waiting for the database to respond, the server can process other requests, effectively utilizing the available CPU resources.
  3. Efficiency:

    • By using asynchronous programming for I/O-bound tasks, the application can remain responsive and efficient. It can handle multiple operations simultaneously without blocking the CPU, which is particularly important in environments like web servers where multiple clients may be making requests at the same time.

Summary

In summary, the speaker is highlighting that when tasks are I/O-bound rather than CPU-bound, you can effectively manage multiple tasks in parallel using asynchronous programming. This approach allows for better resource utilization and responsiveness, especially in scenarios like web server applications where many requests can be processed concurrently without overwhelming the CPU.

but why would the CPU be overwhelmed in the first place if the tasks are not CPU bound in the first place?
Sider Fusion

Great question! The concept of the CPU being "overwhelmed" is more relevant when discussing a high number of CPU-bound tasks that require extensive computation and processing power. However, let's clarify further:

  1. CPU-Bound Tasks: When many CPU-bound tasks are executed simultaneously, the CPU can become saturated. This means it's working to its full capacity, processing the heavy computational loads for each task. If the number of CPU-bound tasks exceeds the CPU's ability to handle them efficiently, it may lead to slower response times or delays because tasks have to wait their turn for CPU resources.

  2. I/O-Bound Tasks: In contrast, when tasks are I/O-bound, they spend a significant amount of time waiting for external resources (like databases, file systems, or network responses). During this waiting period, the CPU is not actively engaged in computation for these tasks, which allows the system to remain responsive.

  3. Resource Utilization: Using asynchronous programming for I/O-bound tasks allows the CPU to efficiently switch to other tasks during the waiting time. Even though I/O-bound tasks themselves don’t consume CPU cycles while waiting, if they are managed correctly, the CPU can remain busy with other non-blocking operations. That’s why it’s important to handle them in a way that doesn’t keep the CPU idle.

The Importance of asynchrony

When the speaker refers to managing tasks that are not CPU-bound, he likely means optimizing the use of system resources and ensuring that the CPU is effectively engaged in processing other tasks rather than being held up by waiting on I/O operations.

In essence, while I/O-bound tasks won’t overwhelm the CPU in the same way CPU-bound tasks can, the goal is to maximize CPU utilization and maintain responsiveness in applications by not blocking the CPU when handling many I/O-bound tasks.

So, the concern is more about maintaining an efficient flow of processing in the application rather than the CPU being overwhelmed in a traditional sense.

oh so you mean cpu being overhwhelmed by IO bound tasks in the sense that they block the CPU.
Sider Fusion

Not exactly. I see where the confusion might be, so let me clarify that point.

  1. Blocking vs. Overwhelming: When we talk about I/O-bound tasks, the issue isn't about the CPU being "overwhelmed" in the sense of saturation, like it would be with many CPU-bound tasks. Instead, blocking refers to the situation where tasks that need to wait for input/output operations (like database queries or file reads) can prevent the CPU from performing other work if those tasks are managed in a way that doesn’t allow for concurrent processing.

  2. I/O-Bound Tasks Blocking the CPU: If I/O-bound tasks are executed on a single thread (like the UI thread mentioned earlier), and that thread is blocked waiting for an I/O operation to complete, the CPU cannot use that thread for any other processing. In this sense, the CPU appears to be "blocked" on that task, even though there are no CPU-intensive computations occurring.

  3. Asynchronous Handling: The advantage of handling I/O-bound tasks asynchronously is that it allows the program to continue processing other tasks while the I/O operation is awaiting completion. This prevents the CPU from being held up by waiting I/O operations and keeps the application responsive.

Summary

So, to clarify: the CPU isn’t overwhelmed by I/O-bound tasks in terms of processing power but can become blocked if those tasks don’t allow for concurrency. Using asynchronous programming techniques prevents this blocking by letting the CPU remain busy with other tasks while waiting for I/O operations to complete. This is crucial for maintaining application performance and responsiveness.

again I think I meant the same thing, if tasks don't allow for concurrency they will be in waiting state and block the CPU, no?
Sider Fusion

Yes, you’re correct, and I appreciate your patience in clarifying this! Let me summarize the relationship clearly:

  1. Blocking State: When tasks that are waiting for I/O operations don’t allow for concurrency and are running on the same thread (especially the UI thread in applications), they can block that thread. This means the CPU cannot do any useful work related to that thread until the I/O operation is complete.

  2. CPU Utilization: In this blocking scenario, the CPU can indeed become underutilized because it is waiting for the I/O operation to finish instead of executing other tasks. So, while the CPU isn’t truly "overwhelmed" in the sense of processing overload, it is effectively idle and unable to process other requests that could be handled at that time.

  3. Concurrency and Responsiveness: To avoid this, asynchronous programming techniques enable handling I/O-bound tasks without blocking the execution of other processes. This allows for better use of CPU resources, keeping the application responsive as it can handle multiple tasks simultaneously (e.g., processing user inputs, updating the UI, and managing I/O operations) by switching back and forth between them as they await completion.

Summary

To sum it up: You rightly point out that if tasks don’t allow for concurrency and are blocking, they can prevent the CPU from working on other tasks, leading to inefficient resource utilization. Asynchronous handling of those tasks helps maintain CPU workflows and application responsiveness while waiting for I/O operations to complete. Thank you for guiding the conversation toward clarity!

so the CPU is still getting hte time alloted bu the OS for that particular thread. But instead of waiting in that time slice period, it could work on different tasks that are avalaible within that Thread, correct? even if they are not CPU bound.
Sider Fusion

Yes, exactly! You've captured the concept perfectly. Let’s break it down:

  1. Time Slicing: The operating system allocates CPU time to threads in small time slices. During each time slice, the CPU is expected to execute the tasks assigned to the thread that has been scheduled to run.

  2. Blocking in I/O-Bound Tasks: If a thread is executing an I/O-bound task and that task becomes blocked (waiting for, say, a database response), the CPU is essentially sitting idle during that time slice because it cannot proceed with the blocked task.

  3. Utilizing CPU Time: Instead of allowing the CPU to sit idle during the time slice when the thread is blocked, the operating system can switch to another task or thread that is ready to run. This can include other tasks within the same application or even tasks from different applications. If there are other tasks that are not blocked and are ready to execute (even if they are not CPU-bound), the CPU can utilize its time effectively by processing those instead.

  4. Responsiveness: This approach enhances the responsiveness of applications. For example, in a UI application, while one part of the application is waiting for data from a database, the CPU can still handle user interactions or other non-blocking tasks in the UI thread, keeping the application responsive.

Summary

So, to summarize: During the time slice allocated by the OS, if a thread is blocked on an I/O operation, the CPU could potentially work on other available tasks within that thread or switch to another thread altogether. This prevents wasted CPU cycles and improves overall efficiency and responsiveness of the application. Your understanding is spot on!

it can siwtch to another thread without waiting for the time slice period to be oiver?
Sider Fusion

Yes, that's correct! The operating system can switch to another thread even before the current time slice is over, especially in the context of blocking operations. Here’s how it works:

  1. Preemptive Multitasking: Most modern operating systems use a scheduling method called preemptive multitasking. This means that the OS can interrupt a currently running thread to allocate CPU time to another thread. This is particularly useful for managing threads that may be blocked or waiting for resources.

  2. Blocking Operations: When a thread is blocked (for example, waiting for an I/O operation to complete), the OS can recognize that the thread cannot proceed. It can then preemptively switch to another thread that is ready to run, even if the time slice for the blocked thread hasn’t expired yet. This allows the CPU to continue working on tasks that can make progress.

  3. Efficiency: By allowing this kind of switching, the OS maximizes CPU utilization and responsiveness. It ensures that the CPU is not idly waiting for a blocked thread to become unblocked but is instead actively working on other tasks that are ready to execute.

  4. Thread Scheduling: The actual mechanism for switching threads involves the thread scheduler in the OS, which manages which threads get CPU time based on their states (running, ready, blocked) and their priority levels.

Summary

In summary, the OS can indeed switch to another thread without waiting for the current time slice to finish, especially when it detects that a thread is blocked. This preemptive multitasking approach allows for more efficient use of CPU resources and helps maintain application responsiveness. Your understanding of the concept is spot on!

bruh then why would anything be blocked every then Then that would make no use of async programming if OS can detect thread is blocked.
Sider Fusion

That's a valid concern, and it gets to the heart of why asynchronous programming is important even in systems with preemptive multitasking. Here’s the distinction:

  1. Blocking vs. Non-Blocking Operations:

    • Blocking Operations: When a thread executes a blocking operation (like a synchronous I/O call), it essentially stops executing until that operation is complete. Even if the OS can switch to another thread, that specific thread must wait for the operation to finish. This can lead to inefficient resource use if the thread spends a significant amount of time waiting while the CPU could be handling other tasks.
    • Non-Blocking Operations: In contrast, asynchronous programming allows operations to be initiated without waiting for their completion. Instead of blocking the thread, the operation can run in the background, and the thread can continue executing other code or handle more tasks.
  2. Asynchronous Programming Benefits:

    • Responsiveness: With asynchronous programming, applications can remain responsive. For instance, a UI application can continue to accept user inputs or perform other updates while an I/O operation is still being processed in the background.
    • Resource Management: Asynchronous programming can lead to better resource management by allowing tasks to run concurrently without blocking each other unnecessarily. This is particularly important in environments where many tasks are waiting on I/O operations, like web servers handling multiple client requests.
  3. Thread Management: If an application has to manage a lot of blocking I/O operations on multiple threads, it can lead to inefficiencies. For instance, using many threads just for waiting on I/O can consume system resources (like memory) without providing benefits. Asynchronous programming can help avoid this by allowing a smaller number of threads to handle many concurrent operations, effectively managing I/O without blocking.

  4. Performance Considerations: While the OS can switch between threads, it still incurs overhead from context switching (the process of saving and loading states between threads). When many threads are blocked waiting for I/O, that overhead can add up, so using an asynchronous design can help mitigate performance issues.

Summary

In summary, while the OS does have mechanisms to detect and switch from blocked threads, asynchronous programming is advantageous because it avoids the long wait times associated with blocking operations. It leads to better application responsiveness, efficient resource management, and reduced context switching overhead. Asynchronous programming creates a more efficient flow of operations, especially in applications that handle numerous I/O-bound tasks simultaneously, therefore making it a valuable tool in software design.

"Even if the OS can switch to another thread, that specific thread must wait for the operation to finish. This can lead to inefficient resource use if the thread spends a significant amount of time waiting while the CPU could be handling other tasks." bruh but if OS wioll siwthc to oither thread before the alloted time of thje thread is complete won't cpu start woprking for another thread, how would that be a waste? Please stop confusing me
Sider Fusion

I apologize for the confusion! Let’s clarify this point step by step.

Key Points

  1. Thread Blocking: When a thread is executing a blocking operation (like a synchronous I/O call), it cannot proceed until that operation completes. This means that if the thread is blocked, it cannot do any other work.

  2. OS Switching Threads: The operating system can indeed switch to another thread if the current thread is blocked. This is part of preemptive multitasking, where the OS can interrupt a running thread to give CPU time to another thread that is ready to run. This means that while one thread is waiting for an I/O operation to finish, the CPU can work on another thread.

  3. Efficiency: Here’s where the distinction lies:

    • If the application uses synchronous (blocking) I/O calls, the thread that initiated the I/O operation will be blocked until that operation completes. Even though the OS can switch to another thread, the original thread is still in a waiting state, which can lead to inefficiencies if it is doing a lot of blocking I/O.
    • In contrast, with asynchronous (non-blocking) I/O calls, the thread can initiate the I/O operation and then continue executing other code without waiting for the I/O operation to finish. This means that the thread does not become blocked at all, allowing for more efficient use of CPU resources.

Example Scenario

  • Blocking I/O:

    • Thread A starts a blocking I/O operation (like reading a file).
    • Thread A is blocked and cannot do anything else until the read operation completes.
    • The OS can switch to Thread B, but Thread A is still waiting.
  • Asynchronous I/O:

    • Thread A starts an asynchronous I/O operation.
    • Instead of waiting, Thread A can continue executing other tasks or return to the event loop.
    • When the I/O operation completes, the OS can notify Thread A, which can then handle the result without having been blocked.

Summary

  • Blocking Operations: When a thread is blocked, it cannot do any work until the operation completes, but the CPU can switch to another thread. However, if many threads are blocked, it can lead to inefficiencies because those threads are not contributing to overall processing.

  • Asynchronous Operations: By using asynchronous programming, threads can initiate I/O operations without blocking, allowing them to continue processing other tasks. This leads to better CPU utilization and responsiveness.

So, while the OS can switch between threads, relying on blocking I/O can still lead to inefficiencies in resource usage. Asynchronous programming helps avoid this by ensuring that threads aren’t left waiting unnecessarily. Thank you for your patience, and I hope this clears up the confusion!

so your point is not ony CPU being idle is bad, a Thread being in waiting state is also bad? " the original thread is still in a waiting state, which can lead to inefficiencies if it is doing a lot of blocking I/O." what inefficiencies you mean here
Sider Fusion

Yes, that’s exactly right! Both CPU idleness and a thread being in a waiting state can lead to inefficiencies, but they manifest in different ways. Let’s break down these inefficiencies specifically related to threads being in a waiting state due to blocking I/O operations.

Inefficiencies of Threads in a Waiting State

  1. Resource Utilization:

    • Memory Usage: Each thread consumes system resources, including memory for its stack and data. If many threads are created to handle blocking tasks and are left waiting, those resources are reserved but not actively used for processing.
    • Thread Management Overhead: The operating system manages the state of each thread. When threads are blocked, it incurs overhead to keep track of these threads and their states (ready, running, blocked). This can slow down the system, especially when many threads are involved.
  2. Scalability Issues:

    • Limited Concurrent Operations: A large number of blocked threads can limit the scalability of an application. For instance, in a web server context, if one thread is blocked waiting for a database query, that thread cannot handle new incoming requests. While the OS can switch to other threads, if too many are blocked, the overall throughput of the application can degrade.
    • Context Switching Overhead: If many threads are frequently switching in and out due to blocking, it can lead to performance degradation from context switching overhead. Each switch requires saving/restoring the state of threads, which consumes CPU time.
  3. User Experience:

    • Responsiveness: In applications with a user interface (like GUIs), if the main thread is blocked due to I/O operations, the application becomes unresponsive to user input. This can lead to a poor user experience, as users might think the application has frozen or is slow.
  4. Potential for Deadlocks:

    • Deadlocks: If threads are blocked and waiting for resources held by other threads, it may lead to deadlocks, where two or more threads are waiting indefinitely for each other to release resources. This can significantly hamper application performance and require additional mechanisms to detect and resolve.

Summary

When threads are in a waiting state due to blocking I/O, they tie up system resources and can hinder overall application performance and responsiveness. This is why asynchronous programming is favored in scenarios where many I/O-bound operations can occur. It allows applications to operate more efficiently by freeing threads from waiting states and enabling them to handle other tasks, ultimately improving resource utilization and user experience.

In summary, both CPU idleness and threads being in a waiting state can lead to inefficiencies and reduced performance in applications. Thank you for your questions, and I hope this helps clarify the issue!

"s, if too many are blocked, the overall throughput of the application can degrade." why would it, could you explain more? Why can't the OS just create more threads? I am sure multiuple threads are currenltly sitting idle, no
Sider Fusion

Great questions! Let’s dive deeper into why having too many blocked threads can degrade the overall throughput of an application, and the limitations of simply creating more threads.

Why Blocked Threads Degrade Throughput

  1. Thread Limits and System Resources:

    • System Limits: Most operating systems have limits on the number of threads that can be run concurrently. Creating an excessive number of threads can lead to contention for resources (like memory and CPU), and the OS has to manage these threads, adding overhead.
    • Thread Pooling: Many applications use thread pools to manage their threads efficiently. If all threads in a pool are busy or blocked, or if the pool size is set too small, the application cannot create new threads beyond that limit to handle incoming tasks, reducing throughput.
  2. Context Switching Overhead:

    • Overhead Costs: While the OS can switch between threads, this switching incurs overhead due to the time taken to save and restore the state of each thread. When too many threads are created, the CPU spends more time context switching than executing actual tasks, leading to wasted CPU cycles and reduced performance.
  3. Latency and Queuing:

    • Task Queuing: When many threads are blocked, new incoming tasks may have to wait in a queue until a thread becomes available. This results in increased latency for task completion. If a significant portion of the threads is blocked, there may be few threads left to handle new tasks, creating bottlenecks.
    • Load Imbalance: If some threads are blocked while others are processing, it results in an imbalance where the CPU may not be utilized effectively, leading to periods where it is underactive while waiting for blocked threads to free up.
  4. Resource Contention:

    • Shared Resources: If multiple threads are trying to access shared resources (like database connections) and many of them are blocked waiting for those resources, it can slow down the entire application. The contention for those resources makes it harder for tasks to be completed efficiently.

Why Not Just Create More Threads?

  1. Resource Allocation:

    • Overhead of Many Threads: Creating too many threads can exhaust the available system resources (like CPU time and memory). Each thread requires its own stack space and other resources that can quickly accumulate, leading to inefficiencies and potentially running out of memory.
    • Diminishing Returns: At a certain point, adding more threads doesn’t guarantee more throughput. Instead, you might hit a threshold where context switching overhead and resource contention start to negate any performance benefits from having additional threads.
  2. Complexity and Management:

    • Increased Complexity: Managing too many threads can lead to complex synchronization issues, such as deadlocks and race conditions, which can further impact performance and stability.
    • Thread Lifecycle Management: Each thread has a lifecycle (creation, execution, termination) that the operating system must manage. The more threads there are, the more complex these operations become, which can impact performance further.

Summary

In summary, having too many threads blocked can lead to degraded throughput because of limits on system resources, the overhead of context switching, increased latency due to queuing, and contention for shared resources. Simply creating more threads isn’t a catch-all solution because of the complexities and overhead associated with managing large numbers of threads.

Using asynchronous programming allows for better handling of I/O-bound tasks by freeing up threads from waiting states, thus increasing overall efficiency and maintaining better responsiveness within applications.

Hopefully, this explanation clarifies the nuances of why managing threads efficiently is crucial for maintaining application throughput!

but iosn't thje CPU alreadyu context siwthcing between various process's and their threads all the time? I don't undewrtand

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